tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081650521640947681.post3280452075038173910..comments2024-03-26T10:40:16.250-06:00Comments on Neville-Neville Land: Jonathan Neville accuses Church leaders of apostasyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081650521640947681.post-79107636169135363462020-05-29T20:44:27.374-06:002020-05-29T20:44:27.374-06:00I saw the seer stone in the visitors center on Tem...I saw the seer stone in the visitors center on Temple Square as a new convert in 1973. I thought it was odd but interesting. The visitors center is far different now than it was then.Charles Dikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00277038169763696923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081650521640947681.post-21578794001214413922020-05-29T07:31:59.958-06:002020-05-29T07:31:59.958-06:00Hmm… I must have been in some kind of quantum time...Hmm… I must have been in some kind of quantum time anomaly. I distinctly remember having a very fun, lively and inspiring discussion of Joseph’s use of his seer stones with a group of missionaries and church leaders when I was a missionary. The problem is, I thought I was a missionary in the 1970s.<br /><br />Yet now I am told that I couldn’t have had that conversation until after 2007. Somehow, before my mission conversation, but after my mission, I managed to have a family, but was still waiting to go on my mission, as a young man, but was already past the half century mark …. Wait! What?!?<br /><br />SamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5081650521640947681.post-9273663832239211602020-05-28T19:20:30.109-06:002020-05-28T19:20:30.109-06:00Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the te...Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the term "Urim and Thummim" originally used to refer to both the Nephite interpreters and the seer stone collectively? It was thus not inaccurate to say (from "the beginning of the Restoration until 2007") that Joseph translated with the Urim and Thummim, because that term referred to both tools. It was adopted as a term because of its use in the Old Testament, but the interpreters weren't originally called "Urim and Thummim"; and over time, the term became used to refer exclusively to the Nephite interpreters, with the seer stone being somewhat forgotten, at least among lay members and non-historians (at least from what I understand). <br /><br />If this is the case, it makes sense that the Church would be trying to accurately represent the tools that Joseph Smith used in the translation. Using the term Urim and Thummim to refer to the tool(s) Joseph Smith used to translate does not convey the understanding, among modern members of the Church, that Joseph used both the interpreters and the seer stone, as it may have once done when the term was first introduced. Thus, I can understand why speakers in General Conference have not used the term more recently, reflecting the greater historical understanding we have now. <br /><br />(I think my information comes from something I read in Mackay and Dirkmaat's "From Darkness Unto Light", but I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, so I could be wrong). Davidnoreply@blogger.com